Icons Made Easy: Rob Explains Font Awesome Pro

[TRANSCRIPT]

0:00:08 - (Matt): Welcome to podcast awesome, where we chat about icons, design, tech business and nerdery with members of the font awesome team. So I have a saying around font awesome that icons are not going to change the world. Really. They're a very small thing and there's a very small segment of the population that geek out about icons and icon tech. But we love geeking out about icon tech and the icons and we want to make sure that using our icons makes everything easy for you.

0:00:49 - (Matt): One of the ways that we do that is we're always adding new features, especially, especially to fawn awesome pro. But some of the features can get a little bit confusing and we want to make sure that everyone understands what they're getting.

0:01:00 - (Matt): Like, what the heck is a kit?

0:01:02 - (Matt): What does it do? Why is it important to me? And am I really going to get a true human to help me with technical support? Fun Awesome's principal engineer Rob Madole is going to get us all straightened out. I think one of the things that's sort of top of the list is we talk about serving up icons and that we have this thing called font awesome kits to let people behind the curtain a little bit internally.

0:01:29 - (Matt): We've talked amongst ourselves and we realize we don't always do a great job of explaining what kits are. At some point you have to name a product and we called it fawn awesome kits. Was it the best name? I don't know. Maybe not.

0:01:44 - (Rob): Yeah, maybe not.

0:01:46 - (Matt): But if somebody is like, Rob, give me a deep dive on kits. Why it matters. What is a kit? What is the benefit of a kit? What does it do?

0:01:55 - (Rob): What would you say? Yeah, it's a good question and we don't always have the best answer, but I think you mentioned earlier that we know that icons are not the thing that you want to spend time on. Right.

0:02:10 - (Matt): Right.

0:02:11 - (Rob): It's almost the grocery shopping of work where it's a necessity. You want to get it done, but if it becomes annoying or it gets in your way, then it really ticks you off when you have to butts with it. So that easiest part, a good bit of it, is getting it done quickly so that it's integrated into whatever you're doing and you don't have to mess with it anymore. That's what our measure of easiest is.

0:02:41 - (Rob): What becomes complicated is that there's not one answer for everyone because you could have a WordPress site that you're working on. You might have a react project that you're doing. You could be working in Figma or one of the Adobe products or making a keynote presentation, there's just so many different ways and places you need icons that we can't just create one solution and be like, here you go, you're good, this is all you need.

0:03:10 - (Rob): So for us, it's important for us to meet you where you are. We said that before. It's one of the phrases we like to use is meet you where you're at instead of having you come to us. So if you're using WordPress, we have a specific WordPress plugin. Now, the cool thing about WordPress is that one integrates with kits. So coming back around to what kits is kits is a way for us to get the fun, awesome version that you need in the way that you need it and have it specific to a project.

0:03:39 - (Rob): Because a lot of times what we see is that, you know, our customers don't just have one thing that they're working on, they could have a blog that does one thing, they could have another main site, or if they're an e commerce site, they could be doing other design work, whatever it is. But the idea of kits is that it's project specific and what you can do is go into a kit, you create a new one, and then you're able to set this thing up exactly like you need it for that project.

0:04:13 - (Rob): So if you need a specific version of font awesome, maybe you want the kid to always upgrade to the latest version whenever you use it. Maybe you've got a specific technology. If you're using JavaScript, you want that to be a JavaScript kit. If you're doing something else, you might need a web font and CSS kit. So that's all those settings are in that kit. So we package everything up and it becomes your version of font awesome for whatever project you're working on.

0:04:41 - (Rob): That's a little long winded, but that's basically the idea of kit is it's project specific and it's your version of awesome just like you need it.

0:04:52 - (Matt): Yep. And a really great feature to that is if you have a project that you need to be really lightweight and let's say you use a dozen icons on a particular site that you're building, there's no real good reason to load every single font awesome icon available. That's going to slow things down. And especially when you're considering getting good performance out of your site and quick load time and all that stuff.

0:05:18 - (Matt): If you can make it lightweight and just have a few of those icons load up, you can set a kit specific to that site and it's going to load quickly. That's a huge benefit.

0:05:30 - (Rob): Huge benefit, yeah. And that was one of those things that we, that feature that you just described where you can reduce the number of icons you're using so that you're just using the ones you actually need. We call that subsetting, and that may or may not be the best term either. We may not be so great at picking the names of things at this company, who knows? But that subsetting, we arrived at that in a kind of organic way.

0:05:58 - (Rob): Funnelson four was around 600 icons, and at that size, you really don't need to subset so much because even with 600 icon, the packages and the files were not that big. As we grew, we hit phone awesome five, we doubled it and then kept going. Phone awesome six, added more families and styles we literally have over, and I can't remember the last count, but it's just thousands of icons. So we got to a place where loading all those icons, it just felt irresponsible.

0:06:33 - (Rob): We couldn't in good conscious say, hey everybody, here's all these icons. Put all of these on your site so that they're available because the packages were so large. So that's where we got to. That subsetting part is that you have to provide a different solution. One of our biggest positives that we have so many icons became a big negative for us because now all these icons, we have to manage those differently.

0:06:59 - (Rob): So yeah, kits, that's one of our favorite features with kits is that you can subset, you can reduce the file size, increase performance, and just use those icons that you need.

0:07:10 - (Matt): It's funny, there's been a lot of side conversations about how to best describe it, and I'm always looking for like a real world example or a kind of fun way to describe certain features and products. And one of the things that came up was for all those d and D nerds out there, maybe you could say a kit is like a bag of holding. The idea is that you have a bag that you can put all of your weapons into, all of your rations, all of your everything, and there's no weight to it. You can pull out whatever you need, you can sling it on your shoulder and go on your adventure, but you're not going to be bogged down with a bunch of weight.

0:07:55 - (Matt): I don't know how much of a D and D nerd you are, but I think you get the idea. Does that kind of get at it pretty well? Or. Of course metaphors are always going to.

0:08:03 - (Rob): Break down, but yeah, metaphors can be tough. But no, I think that's a pretty good one. Because the idea of the bag of holding is that it grows as it needs to because there's not like a limit to the size. So you can keep packing stuff in there and it just does what it's supposed to do. Yeah. So that works for the kit. You figure out you need more icons. You go in there and you add more icons to your kit.

0:08:27 - (Rob): You click the save button in there and you can use them. Yeah, so that's a good analogy. I like that one. Or the Harry Potter fans too, which is basically the same thing as Hermione did, that extensible charm on the back. So she can like basically stuff all sorts of crap in this little tiny handbag that she carries around. And that was probably the one thing that saved them throughout the entire adventure.

0:08:48 - (Rob): If she wouldn't have had that bag, I don't think they would have beat all the more. There's just no way they didn't have the stuff they needed.

0:08:55 - (Matt): So now you can go be Voldemort and if you need a long sword or a mace or a jug of mead or whatever you need, it's right there in your kit or your bag of holding or whatever you want to call it. Call it whatever you want. Man, we got wizardy witchy icons.

0:09:16 - (Rob): We do.

0:09:27 - (Matt): For pro users, you have access to 20 kits as opposed to just a single kit with the free version. And why might it be important for somebody to have access to 20 kits? And in what situation would somebody need more than just a couple kits?

0:09:45 - (Rob): Yeah, it's a good question. You mentioned free users get one kit. The idea there is that we want to let anybody who wants to try them try kit, because we do really think that they are a great way to use fun. Awesome. It's the best way, the way that we recommend everybody do it. Free users can come in, they create that one kit and just try it out. We have a lot of customers that when they see the value of the kit, it's whenever they've got multiple projects.

0:10:14 - (Rob): A great example for a lot of our customers. And we even do this here at phone. Awesome. In software development, you will have different environments that you do your deployment into. We don't want to just automatically ship things to production and have our customers find bugs for us. We actually have the staging environment and we ship there first, do our test, make sure everything's working correctly, and then we go to production. So it's a way of de risking software development or work. Maybe you're ready to upgrade versions.

0:10:48 - (Rob): So you upgrade to the latest version for your staging kit, test everything out and make sure it's working, and then you can make those same changes to your production kit. The other thing is if you have multiple projects, right? Having those be separate so that you can isolate changes and not break something else. If you make a change to the kit, because again, we want, as you're deploying and you're making stuff, you don't want to break things that are already working on something new. So that's why multiple kits would be an important thing.

0:11:20 - (Matt): So maybe somebody working at an agency, they have lots of clients, they're building different sites, even internally. Certain organizations will have multiple sites with different needs and different audiences and stuff like that. If you're creating independent kits for each of those, you can keep them separated and organized and have it be its own thing. Like we always say, your own little version of font. Awesome. For each individual project if you need it.

0:11:48 - (Rob): The agency example is really great, because another thing that we do is when you have a pro account, you have so many page views that you're allowed. So kits is a CDN, you don't have to host it. We hosted ourselves. We have our own highly available CDN that's deployed all over the world and it's going through Cloudflare. And we work hard to make sure that's robust. And to do that, there's a limit on the number of pages for the account and you can upgrade and we give you more page views.

0:12:22 - (Rob): But being able to see which project is using the page views is important because maybe you've got a kit, you're an agency, you've got a kit, and one of your clients is using a lot of page views. Okay, maybe it's time for them to have their own account. Or you can adjust things and make sure that you get that all set up like you need to. So each kit has its own page view tracking, so you can see how those perform.

0:12:47 - (Matt): Yep. And a free kit, I think, is it, is it 10,000 page views for.

0:12:54 - (Rob): A free kit is 10,000? Yeah.

0:12:57 - (Matt): Especially if you have a high traffic site or whatever and you're going over that number, it's going to be time for you to think about signing up for pro. So you've got that 1 million page views. Yeah.

0:13:07 - (Rob): Pro bumps to 1 million. Yeah. And if you're using kits and you're getting 10,000 page views, we think, hey, you're getting benefit out of this and we want to continue to show you what else you can do with font awesome. And there's a lot of extra features with pro that you get that can take you to that next level when you're ready.

0:13:26 - (Matt): And of course, the big idea here, if you got the tech and you can set your individual kits, but what we're all here for, of course, is the icons. And for pro, you can get access to the 13,000 plus icons. Huge library and it's just right there. You can use any one of them in multiple styles, different weights, depending on the type of site that you're building. I don't know, what more can we say about all of the icons?

0:13:55 - (Matt): We've got every, what is it, 66? I think maybe it's more. At least 66 categories, 13,000 plus icons. Almost anything that you can think of, whatever you might need to build, including a Pooh storm icon, a dumpster fire icon, a business time icon, a hand horns icon for heavy, the heavy metal fans, a middle finger icon. We have lots of emoji parody as well.

0:14:26 - (Rob): Yeah, tons of emoji which, yeah, those are fantastic. That, that is the reason you buy a subscription, that's the reason you use font awesome is getting access to all the stinking icons because we have so many. The chances of you put it this way, if you need an icon, you can probably find something that'll work in what we've already got.

0:14:48 - (Matt): Yep. And you've got consistency of look and feel across every style, so you're not going to have to go rummaging around online trying to find a weird one off that isn't going to fit the vibe and all that.

0:15:03 - (Rob): Yeah. The icon designers, Jori and Noah, they spend so much time when they work on these icons making sure that they work well together. And I know you've probably seen the screenshots, but our people listening to the podcast haven't seen. They put these screens up and they randomly pick icons. I don't know how they do the random part of it, but they'll just throw a bunch of icons on the screen and then they just stare at it and look for things that don't work.

0:15:29 - (Rob): It would drive me nuts, but for some reason those two are weird enough that they can actually do it. We do have tons of icons, but if you do run into a situation where the one you need is not available or maybe you have your own icon designers and you just want to use the font awesome tech because I think we have great tech that powers kids and one of the features of a pro kit is you can upload your own icons.

0:16:06 - (Rob): So do you have some of those really strange ones that are just maybe your business specific. A long time ago we had a customer that they were in the medical field, so they had to upload a lot of icons that were spleen related. I don't know if they had a doctor's office and they were some kind of internal medicine, but they were all spleens and okay, we don't have a lot of spleen icons in font awesome. So that's a little bit too specialized and kits lets you upload those icons and use them. So we have a great way. So you get your icon, you get it into our tech, we'll serve it for you.

0:16:44 - (Rob): We'll make sure it looks great and works just like all the other icons. And then you can use those in your projects.

0:16:50 - (Matt): Yep, you can use our tech as well as the styling options right alongside the other font awesome icons. So you have that oddball icon or some people may even want to tweak our icons. For whatever reason, they can tweak our icons to their liking and use icon upload for that.

0:17:09 - (Rob): Also, funny you should mention that do have a feature that lets you do exactly that. We call it the icon wizard, and it might be hard to visualize over audio, but take the user icon, for example. Just a little icon of a user. Everybody's seen that one. But you might have a user interface that you're designing where you need to do certain things to a user. Maybe you're adding a user or deleting a user.

0:17:41 - (Rob): The icon modifiers are little pluses and minuses that would go down in the bottom corner of that icon. That indicates adding a user. The minus would be subtracting or deleting the user. We've got a lot of these built into phone awesome already, so there's a pretty good chance you'll find the one you need, but they're not all there. So we designed what we call the icon wizard and it lets you take a base icon like the user icon, and then we've got, I don't know, 20 or so different modifiers that you can apply on top of it to change that icon and make it represent whatever you're doing.

0:18:16 - (Rob): And those get uploaded to a kit, they get uploaded as a custom icon and then. Yeah, like you said, you can use those just like any other phone awesome icon after that.

0:18:28 - (Matt): Yep. Yeah. I can't imagine somebody wouldn't be able to find what it is they need. But if they can't, he's still got options. And so with the, the font awesome styles we've got lots of different weights depending on what somebody's need is like the visual look and feel that they're going for. We've got solid jury and Noah probably speak a little bit more in detail when it comes to this, but we have the solid icons and then you have the lighter options as well. So you have light, thin, even duotone if you need icons that have like multiple colors.

0:19:06 - (Matt): And we've got the all new sharp icons, which is great for fintech type projects. If you're trying to add a little bit of levity or seriousness to your design, sometimes a sharp icon is a really good option for that. When it comes to some of this stuff, like what is a pro license and why does it matter or when is it going to matter?

0:19:32 - (Rob): We've got two different main ways. You use font awesome. Either you let us host it and we're the CDN and this is how we recommend people start with kits. Especially you start with just letting us host it because hosting can be tricky and difficult and you have to set it up and it takes time. So that's one way there's, it's a service we host. The other way is that you can actually download it yourself and you can worry about hosting it.

0:20:00 - (Rob): You can integrated into things that are maybe a little bit more difficult to use or products that are not on the Internet, things that are disconnected or you just don't have Internet access, or it just doesn't work to use a CDN. So the pro license is designed to basically give you the rights to download and then to use that in the projects. We want people to use font awesome everywhere that they can, that it makes sense that it will provide value to them.

0:20:34 - (Rob): So that license is, hey, look, here you go. You can download it and as long as you have, let me back up a little bit, because what I want to talk about is the idea of a perpetual license, because we get some confusion around that. I know that Trevor, our customer support lead, he answers that question a lot. What is a perpetual license? And the basic idea is this, that you sign up for a subscription and let's say you even cancel after the first year.

0:21:07 - (Rob): We don't want you to never be able to use phone awesome. You paid for it for a year and during that year maybe we released a version or two. You can still use those versions with your perpetual license. You can download it, you can use it in your projects even after your subscription cancels. Now, if your subscription is canceled, you don't get access to the new phone awesome. That we release, which we think that's fair.

0:21:35 - (Rob): If we release new stuff, you don't get access, but you can still use whatever it is that you paid for. So that pro license is a license that says, hey, look, you paid for it for a year, you can use that software in your projects, download it, use it for whatever you need, and you just won't get access to the newer versions.

0:21:55 - (Matt): Right? So pro seats, you get five included in your pro subscription. So what's a seat? Why does it matter? Why does somebody need to use it or when would they need to use it?

0:22:08 - (Rob): So a seat, the way that we talk about it in the way that we put it in the license, the pro license is it's basically somebody who creates things with fun awesome. Of course we have some legal nuance to it and we try to use plain language. I don't know how many people have read our license, but we tried really hard to make that plain language so that people can understand, and that doesn't mean that there's still nuance to it. But a seat allows a creator to make stuff, and there are a few hints or indications that someone is a creator in our eyes.

0:22:43 - (Rob): If they're going to our site and they're using our search interface to look up icons, pretty good indication that you're creating stuff with fun awesome because you're trying to find the right icon and you're probably putting that in various projects. Yep, that would be my first kind of thing. So a seat is part of our pro license. It's something that we talk about and we refer to people as a creator and those creators have rights that we give them with the license that lets them do things with fun awesome, that doesn't mean everyone's a creator.

0:23:16 - (Rob): If, for example, if you make a keynote or a presentation document and you use font awesome icons, you're a creator. You've put icons into a presentation. But if I come along and I just view your presentation and I'm just looking at the icons that you put in there, I'm not a creator, I'm just a viewer of the thing that you made, right?

0:23:35 - (Matt): Yep.

0:23:36 - (Rob): So there's, that's the basic difference there.

0:23:38 - (Matt): Yeah.

0:23:39 - (Rob): And the reason that it's important is the subscription for fun awesome is based on the number of seats. So if you have a small company, maybe you only, you never get past that five seats that we give you, and that's fine. If you're in a bigger company, you have a lot of people that are creating with fun awesome. Our license allows you to add more seats so you've got more creators that can then make things with fun awesome.

0:24:05 - (Rob): And the idea there is that you're getting more value from it. You've got more people that are maybe hitting up our customer support cause we do have real human people that are on. You can just send an email to hellosome.com dot and there's gonna be a human that answers that. We don't have artificial intelligence, it's actually a real human. And so there's a little bit more work that's involved with bigger companies.

0:24:30 - (Rob): But that's what that seed is for is you get more creators in your company for your company, then you can have those two license.

0:24:46 - (Matt): Okay, so pro download, who needs pro download and why?

0:24:52 - (Rob): Pro download allows you to use fun awesome in things that aren't connected to the Internet or that aren't running through a browser. We have a few different ways that you can download fun awesome. Of course you can go to our downloads page and just get a zip file with everything that we make. It's got css and web fonts and svgs and less and sass and all this kind of stuff. We have typefaces otf that you can just install on your operating system and then use it like a normal font.

0:25:28 - (Rob): All that's in the download package. But if you have a JavaScript project, you can use NPM. So NPM is a package manager. You can set up your project and download a JavaScript version of one awesome that you can use with react Vue Ember angular. We have a lot of different integrations there. You can also do download through a kit. And this one gets interesting because all of the features of the kit and the way that you set the kit up get reflected in the thing that you download.

0:25:59 - (Rob): What's great about that is let's we go back to the example of subsetting a kit or just using a smaller number of icons. You can pick those, and then when you download your kit, only those icons are going to be in that dell node. So we make this custom zip file for you on the fly and then you get to save that on your computer. When you unzip that thing, only those icons you picked are in there. So it makes it a lot easier to manage it.

0:26:28 - (Rob): If you're sharing the thing with other developers or designers, they don't have to sift through hundreds of icons that they're not using to find the ones that you are using. They're just all right there. A main function of download is for designers, they want to use our icons in Figma or Adobe illustrator or Photoshop, one of the design tools that you. And then by doing the download they're able to use those files automatic updates.

0:26:59 - (Matt): So if we're adding something to the software or we have new icons or whatever, it's just going to automatically update for you so you don't have to. Is that a part of free or is that specific to pro?

0:27:12 - (Rob): The auto updates is part of a free kit.

0:27:16 - (Matt): Yeah.

0:27:17 - (Rob): So you can have a free kit and that's when you create a new one. Or when you first create your account with us, that kit will be auto upgrading. We just set that up as the default, which is great. We released a new version, it's got new icons in it. Or if you have a pro kit, we release new versions and maybe we release a new style like sharp thin, which is we'll be releasing pretty soon. You just automatically can start using that in your kit. You don't have to do a single thing, make a change on anything.

0:27:51 - (Rob): All you got to do in your project is just go in there and just start using the icon. So that's a great way we have. Most of our kits are set up that way and it lets, it just saves time. People want the latest and greatest. A great example of that is when a company or a brand upgrades their logo. Recently we had Twitter change its branding and that icon was available in the next version. And you can start using that icon without making any changes to your kit, without changing the way that the kit was integrated into your site.

0:28:26 - (Rob): You could just start using it right away.

0:28:29 - (Matt): And we'd mentioned before, actual human support, which we put a little jokey trademark on there, actual human trademark support like you'd mentioned before. If something comes up, you email hello at faun awesome. A real person will actually respond. It's not just going to be AI response generator that's going to, it's not going to be like being in a chat with a cable company as an example, and you can't find the answer you're looking for.

0:28:55 - (Matt): They're actually going to respond back to you with your specific problem. So that can be pretty handy. If something comes up.

0:29:02 - (Rob): It is very handy, and we're proud of this. We know a lot of companies don't do this, but at our size right now, we think it's important enough to have that actual person on the other side. Trevor's not super technical, so when we get something that's a little hairier, that needs further help, he'll assign those tickets to the people that are actually working on Faun awesome.

0:29:26 - (Matt): Yep.

0:29:27 - (Rob): Because we are such a small company, that's how we have to do it. So whenever you get to a weird web font thing in a project, maybe a customer has a really strange issue. You might end up talking with Mike, who is our expert at web fonts and that technology and the way that we've done it. So the guy that built the tool, you might actually get to talk to him, because we do believe that support is important.

0:29:53 - (Matt): Yep. So speaking of non technical people, I would be one of those people. Private registry bandwidth, I don't know what that is. What is that and why does it matter?

0:30:17 - (Rob): Yeah, that's a hard one. I guess the first thing that we can talk about is faun awesome is commercial software. It's something that you pay for. We don't want the whole world to get access to pro unless they have a subscription. That's how we run the business, that's how we continue to make payroll, and we're supporting a business. So we can't just let pro out there in the wild. We have to protect it in some way.

0:30:47 - (Rob): The private registry is a way for us to distribute the commercial software in a way that makes it easy for our customers to deal with it. So we're actually, we're essentially hosting. It's basically a web server. And that web server, you have to give it a token in order for it to allow you to get the pro software. And so if we didn't provide the registry, then our customers would have to be responsible for keeping that thing safe and not letting it out in the world.

0:31:20 - (Rob): So by doing the registry, we try to take the hassle out of it. We give you a token, we give you documentation and make it easy to set up in whatever project you're using. And now you can use this commercial software that you've paid for in your project and not have to worry about it. So at the heart of it, our kit product is a CDN. It's a content delivery network. If you've used Google fonts or you've used any other kind of CDN desk or the CDN, basically it's web hosting, but it's something that you don't have to manage.

0:31:54 - (Rob): And that's really the heart of what kits is and what we can do with that, because we're hosting it, is we can give you one line, either a script tag or link tag that you put in your project. And that's all it takes. Now you've got fun awesome in there, and it's running like you need it to and you can keep going on with your day and your icons are done. If we talk about advanced features with kits is there's one called conflict detection, which is something that came up when we started working on WordPress. Our WordPress plugin Mike invented this, but the idea is that you could have a theme in WordPress or a plugin.

0:32:38 - (Rob): And because fun awesome is so prevalent and it's been around for so long, those themes can actually be using font awesome and using different versions and they end up conflicting with each other. So we have a feature built into kids called conflict detection that will basically look through your site and your project and see if there's anything that it can identify that might be causing problems. So that's really handy for folks that they're trying to put together some different parts and plugins and it's just not working like they think it should.

0:33:12 - (Rob): That conflict detector can give you some hints as to what might be going on. Yeah, and the other thing that kits provides is backwards compatibility. Again, phone awesome has been around for so long. Version four, version five. Now we're at version six. And we want all of your old projects to still work, even though we've made changes over the years. We want the way you named an icon back in version four to still work with your kit today.

0:33:40 - (Rob): So there's a checkbox in your kit, you can turn it on, save it, and we make sure that those old names and those old syntaxes and the way you used icons will work with a new kit, a modern kit.

0:33:53 - (Matt): Rob, thanks so much for taking some time to help us understand pro a little bit better. And so hopefully, hopefully actually, pro users have learned a little bit and we have more features available that maybe didn't know about. And if you're a free user, there's a lot of stuff you can do with pro. And I think it's a huge value because if you add up all of the kind of headaches of dealing with icons that can come up.

0:34:19 - (Matt): It's a pretty small price to pay based on the hours it might take to fix an issue if you don't have pro. So, I don't know, might be worth checking into. Thank you for taking time to walk us through this.

0:34:32 - (Rob): Yeah, thanks, Matt. And we're always working on more features too. There'll be more great stuff coming out along the way, and that'll be available with every pro subscription. Everyone can look after those new features coming.

0:34:46 - (Matt): All right, so there you go. There's the quick and dirty on all things spawn. Awesome pro we hope that you learned something new about all the features that are at your display and for all you free users. Maybe it's time to make an upgrade. I don't know. But as always, we've got our free version that'll always be there. It'll always be free. This podcast was produced and edited by yours truly, Matt Johnson.

0:35:15 - (Matt): A special thanks to Rob for coming on the show and sharing all things Font Awesome Pro. The Font Awesome  theme song was composed by Ronnie Martin and audio mastering was done by Chris ends at Lemon Productions.